From Mav: A couple weeks back, my friend Mikey Wood made a Facebook post about writing a superhero story and that in said story he had characters use the colloquial phrase “dynamic duo” NOT to refer to Batman and Robin. He then questioned whether that reference made sense in that world. Because would the phrase “dynamic duo” have ever come to prominence if it weren’t for popularity of the 1960s Batman TV show?
This got me thinking much of our casual language and cultural practices comes from the fiction that we consume. But when we have so many fictional worlds now that are part of long ongoing franchises, what happens when those fictional worlds have to deal with the fact that they’re being influenced by cultural mora in the real world that comes from their own world. For instance, there are several Silver Age comics from the 60s where Lois is sure she can prove Clark is Superman if she can just get his shirt ripped open to reveal the costume. Or she develops X-ray vision and looks through his clothes. Or she just tries to follow him and watch him change. Except… why on Earth would she ever expect that he was wearing his costume under his clothes? That’s not a normal thing… even for superheroes. It’s just a weird ass thing that Clark does. You have no reason to expect the costume was under his clothes unless you read the book. So really maybe Lois just really wants to sexually harass her co-worker?
There’s similar things… for instance, the word “secret identity” exist in the MCU, even though the vast majority of superheroes don’t have them, and it’s not clear why even those few who do have bothered or know that term.
Mikey pointed out that there’s actually a lot of pop culture phrases that come from movies in particular: “Beam me up, Scotty”, “Toto, we’re not in Kansas anymore”, or “a wrong turn at Albuquerque.” And he’s right, there’s a ton of them, but I think I’m more interested in the ones that don’t make sense in their own fictional universes. In Amazing Spider-man 2, Peter’s ringtone is a the theme from the 60s cartoon, which is funny, except… what song does HE think that is?
So that’s what we want to talk about. Most of my suggestions here were superhero things, mostly because they’re a long enough running narrative, but I feel like this must happen with other franchises as well. Do random people in the 007 universe know what a “license to kill” is? I know that characters on Days of Our Lives have referred to certain characters in important relationships as “super couples” which is something they’d only know if they hung out in soap opera fan forums. I guess romance novel characters might use the word “meet cute”… and we have to assume that they got it because they read romance novels? What are some references within fictional universes that don’t make sense inside the fictional universe because they’re reliant on that universe being not fictional? Basically, we’re looking for any thoughts on media that reflexively references itself by referencing real world things that were inspired by it. Let us know what you have!
Call For Comments: On Bouncing Off the Fourth Wall
August 7, 2024
From Mav: A couple weeks back, my friend Mikey Wood made a Facebook post about writing a superhero story and that in said story he had characters use the colloquial phrase “dynamic duo” NOT to refer to Batman and Robin. He then questioned whether that reference made sense in that world. Because would the phrase “dynamic duo” have ever come to prominence if it weren’t for popularity of the 1960s Batman TV show?
This got me thinking much of our casual language and cultural practices comes from the fiction that we consume. But when we have so many fictional worlds now that are part of long ongoing franchises, what happens when those fictional worlds have to deal with the fact that they’re being influenced by cultural mora in the real world that comes from their own world. For instance, there are several Silver Age comics from the 60s where Lois is sure she can prove Clark is Superman if she can just get his shirt ripped open to reveal the costume. Or she develops X-ray vision and looks through his clothes. Or she just tries to follow him and watch him change. Except… why on Earth would she ever expect that he was wearing his costume under his clothes? That’s not a normal thing… even for superheroes. It’s just a weird ass thing that Clark does. You have no reason to expect the costume was under his clothes unless you read the book. So really maybe Lois just really wants to sexually harass her co-worker?
There’s similar things… for instance, the word “secret identity” exist in the MCU, even though the vast majority of superheroes don’t have them, and it’s not clear why even those few who do have bothered or know that term.
Mikey pointed out that there’s actually a lot of pop culture phrases that come from movies in particular: “Beam me up, Scotty”, “Toto, we’re not in Kansas anymore”, or “a wrong turn at Albuquerque.” And he’s right, there’s a ton of them, but I think I’m more interested in the ones that don’t make sense in their own fictional universes. In Amazing Spider-man 2, Peter’s ringtone is a the theme from the 60s cartoon, which is funny, except… what song does HE think that is?
So that’s what we want to talk about. Most of my suggestions here were superhero things, mostly because they’re a long enough running narrative, but I feel like this must happen with other franchises as well. Do random people in the 007 universe know what a “license to kill” is? I know that characters on Days of Our Lives have referred to certain characters in important relationships as “super couples” which is something they’d only know if they hung out in soap opera fan forums. I guess romance novel characters might use the word “meet cute”… and we have to assume that they got it because they read romance novels? What are some references within fictional universes that don’t make sense inside the fictional universe because they’re reliant on that universe being not fictional? Basically, we’re looking for any thoughts on media that reflexively references itself by referencing real world things that were inspired by it. Let us know what you have!
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